Character

Character

Luxea Dawnlight

Skysinger

Ragnarok [Chaos]

You have no connection with this character.

Follower Requests

Follow this character?

  • 48

Hall of the Novice

Public
Hello Everyone!

Recently met a talkative little newbie who did not know what a limit break is and when I asked him (as a joke) what hall of the novice teaches, he kindly informed me that hall of the novice teaches only how to dodge orange circles on the floor.

...REALLY????

Come now, maybe the guy exaggerated the simplicity of the place, I don't really have a newbie to confirm for myself, but Square Enix, you GOTTA put more in there than that. At least teach them what a limit break is! Maybe teach them to do boss mechanics as they come up in dungeons!

What are your thoughts on this guys? And anyone can confirm about this?
-Luxie
Comments (48)

Asny Rak'nys

Cerberus [Chaos]

You know you can go play hall of the novice even at max level?

I only did one so far because the rewards are more gear that I don't have room for...

Sigurd De-mizar

Phoenix [Light]

Oh, is it how we can get the brand new ring, etc? Ok, now I WANT to do it. My lancer/monk is effectively naked (just turn everything into materia).

Asny Rak'nys

Cerberus [Chaos]

I don't know if a ring is a reward but it rewards a recolour of the sasti, tammy and copper bell mines dps, tank and healer gear.

Muri Achaiois

Malboro [Crystal]

isnt there an active help menu in game for that

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

It does teach more than just dodging orange circles, but only basics like tanking multiple things, only attack the same thing the tank is attacking, etc. And that's how it should be.

I don't enjoy when games hold my hand and tell me exactly how to play the game from the outset. Discovery and learning is part of what makes games great, and even moreso since this is an MMO most of the learning should come from the community and not from the game itself.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

"Maybe teach them to do boss mechanics as they come up in dungeons!"

And while we're at it let's just put in an auto-run feature to avoid AoEs. Too lazy to set waymarks and do mechanics in raids? The game does that for you now! Also divebombs are too difficult and kill walls are too much of a nuisance they're being removed from all appropriate raids.

Broken Ben

Leviathan [Primal]

yeah I done the novice hall and that all it is dodge this dodge that so on and so forth what target should attack first and how to heal this way while dpsing as a healer that kind of crap.

About only good thing was the gear can use for glam since not to bad looking.

Muri Achaiois

Malboro [Crystal]

Back in my day of mmos

Didn't even tell me where to go for quests

Broken Ben

Leviathan [Primal]

yup those were the days now got all these hand me outs makes it to easy

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

Kupo, I disagree. The level of skill in western duty finder is overall, too low. There's no punishment for sucking as it is, players often learn their rotation wrong, get to 60, and then are reluctant to correct it. This leads to to a lot of avoidable drama that could be avoided if the player learned his class, priorities and role properly in the first place. Playstyle variation is nice, but there is always an optimal way as a result and that often becomes the endgame meta in a game.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

"Discovery and learning is part of what makes games great, and even moreso since this is an MMO most of the learning should come from the community and not from the game itself."

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

And if anything, putting something in the game that essentially told players exactly how to play the game and their rotations and everything would just cause more drama, because then even being slightly less than the optimal play would be considered bad and would get you yelled at.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

Sadly, this is an MMO. You play with other people. Being bad at your role/class=OTHER PPL have to compensate for it or waste time or BOTH. This leads to drama, especially when newbie never learned as a newbie and spent too much time playing non-optimally and far from it, becoming arrogant over time, until he canot be easily corrected or take suggestions, becoming a noob. Now, I was not asking for rotation advice from HotN, I called for basics: limit breaks!

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

In all honesty, WoW has some very precise guides for people's rotations. If you weren't playing like an ideal simulator, you didn't get yelled at as long as you did what the avg of that class could do or better. This applied all the way up to herpic raiding, with mythic being the only place they ask for a bit more than average. The overall skill level was hiher though due to players being taught early on by fellow players that being bad was not OK.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

WoW's LFG raiding scene and dungeon finder also had significantly less drama than here (though the latter was faceroll in difficulty on every class by warlords)

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

You sound like one of the people who start drama because people are playing poorly.

And that is on the community, not the game design. People could just as easily try to help people rather than be rude to them. And XIV's lack of guides and whatever just helps build a community because people ask questions or other people feel they have a need to help others who may be struggling.

Jakuta Dhousnos

Cactuar [Aether]

Meh I learned slowly when I first started this. I remember when I was first asked for caster LB and spammed blizzard 2 instead cause I didn't know what the LB was and how it worked till I got to level 25ish. As for rotations I usually makeup my own rotations for My classes and still end up doing the big boy DPS. I also went to the Hall of the Novice for the ring and the DPS teaching is basically: "Dodge the circles of pain, hit enemies, protect healer if need."

Noxelka Caine

Ragnarok [Chaos]

Sure learning the game from scratch is fun. Hopefully most people who learn do get better. BUt what about those that simply refuse to learn and cant take the slighest bit of advice. These types of players are common on this game imo. It would be great to see a bit more punishing mechanics to teach certain people what they are doing isnt good enough

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

And sure there are those people who think they know everything when really they play sub-optimally, even Siren has a few of those, but with how many resources this game has to learn, whether it be by asking questions or simply googling a rotation or something, I can guarantee that an in-game help will do nothing for those people, and instead just make it more difficult for people who actually do want to learn.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

Kupo, you are yet again wrong. I do not start drama when I see someone perform poorly. I simpky leave advice -ONCE. Simply, without any hint of rudely or disrespect. ex. "Use X instead of Y because it does Z more N and costs M less". The drama happens when person that advice is intended for responds with "F*** off I'm pro cus I have am level 52 on this class!" or something similar. Meanwhile, they cause a death or a wipe, or a significant slowdown on the group.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

And if we are to have a mentor system and hall of the novice, I dont see why making it more helpful is a bad thing! Some people cannot be bothered to google the information or ask, putting the information somehwere convenient for them so they can see it simply helps everyone. So you rather that they are yelled at for their laziness regarding looking up a rotation?

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

There is somewhere convenient in-game that the information is provided. It's called tooltips. If people can't read well enough to play on at least a decent level based on the information provided on the tooltips, in game guides will not help them.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

The tooltips are not always accurate. DRG's blood of the dragon for example is very misleading, and potency across all classes, while helpful for discerning what skills do more damage than another, they do not accurately reflect the actual damage. Then there are stuff that tooltips don't tell you about or that the "tooltip" for it is very hard to find in the interface. This game's UI is NOT perfect. But guides can help some of its flaws.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

The most an in-game guide would even be able to go into is explaining the terminology, which for the most part is pretty self-explanatory. The rotations themselves, while yes there is an element of game design making abilities a certain way to produce a certain result/order, it is the community itself that determines the optimal rotation/opener.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

And for the most part the active help system is enough to at least make people aware enough of certain mechanics to ask about them. Including one about the Limit Break, and certain class/job mechanics.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

And how is potency not an accurate representation of damage? It's not like every ability has its own damage formula. Do you really need abilities to say "this ability will do between 6884.73784983 and 7403.3784789 damage"?

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

The community does not decide the optimal rotation, the devs do by deciding the potencies and cooldowns for each skill. This is something that can easy have a guide written about. As for terminology, it apparently wasn't so self explanatory for some people, that by Stone vigil, they still hage no idea what a limit break is. Hell, the price check on retainers when selling stuff is already pretty obscure due to it being a greyed out icon. A newbie told me he didnt know how to talk in novicenet

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

Thats not the point. potency indicates relative damage, but something with smaller potency could be hit hard enough to be significant in dps calculations but still look insignificant to someone who did not spend enough time analyzing it. HoT and DoT are most often overlooked because 35 potency doesnt look amazing next to 150, yet for bards, their between 15% to 20+% come from these 35 potency/hit DoTs depending how well the indiv bard kept the dots on their target(s).

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

Well those last two have nothing to do with guides for rotations. As for the Limit Break, the first time you go into a light party an active help window pops up explaining what Limit Breaks are, so is it really SE's fault if people choose to ignore or not read it? And if people don't read it, do you really think those same people would read/comprehend it if they put in class guides?

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

Aoe rotations on bards and tank healing rotations from healers are often wrong as a result. Nevermind people who underestimate ninja DoTs mudra impact on ninja dps, etc.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

DoTs and HoTs are really the only thing that could be explained any better, as most new players probably wouldn't know the frequency of the DoT tick. But then that's what the novice network is for, and it is pretty much common sense to ask questions about something you don't understand.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

I do think so, they allow true newbies to close their those help windows and to turn off the green leaf icon. There's also no confirmation the newbie acknowledged what they should have known. If a 10 year old claimed he has the neuro development of a 21 year old adult and insists he should be allowed to drink alcohol and drive a car, do you let him? I wouldn't. Not unless an IQ test and some brain scans and a specialist convinced me, and even then, its against the law!

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

and when the newbies didnt think of asking, or didnt know how to use the novice network to ask? psychologically, most ppl would move onto the next thing in their MSQ, and not dawdle on it.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

There's an active help window on Ninja Mudras too. And there is no longer an AoE "rotation" for Bards, as they got rid of all that proc nonsense. Their only rotation now is putting DoTs up before they start AoEing, which is pretty common sense after reading their ability tooltips.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

then they get confident and think theyre right and wont use said skill until they get heavily scolded by multiple people.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

And again, do you really think people who don't read the active help windows or their tooltips would bother reading a class guide? Or would they just skip through it? Most likely the latter.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

And the only thing class guides would do would make the scolding even worse and make people less willing to help out new players.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

No, the procs do happen, theyre resets. If you are endgame geared and you put up 4 dptz across 2 to 4 mobs, you will get on average 1 reset of rain per gcd, maxing at 3 from personal experience. rain has 10 potency less than quick nock but does NEARLY the same damage, with the dots heavily making up the rest of the gap,depending on trahs pull size. even if the dots didnt compensate, the sheer sustainability of this rotation TOPs traditional quick nock spam, and certainly miles overtake purple.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

Ive been parsed by someone recently, and this person said, of every bard he has ever seen, I have the highest DPS he has ever seen. While I dont claim to be the most skilled bard or the highest dps bard in existence, I do think that statement implies something.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

Putting up DoTs and then spamming Quick Nock/Rain of Death is not a rotation.

Noxelka Caine

Ragnarok [Chaos]

It basically is.. I think you understood what she meant.

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

actually that is a rotation. its not a 20 button rotation but it is. Especially since you then must decide wither its more beneficial to keep the dots on fewer targets or more of them depending on pull size, mob longevity (it dies fast or slow)? different mob count also leads to vaariations in dots to put up. if 3 mobs you can easily keep 6 dots on. and spam rain away, but cannot do thos for 8 or you lose damage.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

Rotation implies rotating. And specifically when I was talking about Bard I was talking about the old rotation of the 3 abilities procing into each other. I even said "Their only rotation now is putting DoTs up before they start AoEing" because I do in fact know how the new Bard AoE works, so trying to explain it to me is rather silly and a waste of your time.

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

And did you learn that through and in-game guide? Or did you learn it from reading the tooltips?

Jakuta Dhousnos

Cactuar [Aether]

*drinks chocolate milk while reading this debate.*

Luxea Dawnlight

Ragnarok [Chaos]

Kupo, where I learned what a rotation in an MMORPG means: heroic and mythic raiding on WoW where I was in one of the top 20 raiding guilds on EU Draenor (one of the most populated Horde PVE server). As an MM Hunter, I was also highly ranked amongst hunters in parses. FYI every skill-oriented MMORPG has a rotation for pve for every class. This is in contrast to older games like Lineage 2 where autoattack>skills for damage due to the heavy emphasis on pvp (except mages).

Kupo Warkson

Siren [Aether]

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/ragecomics/images/1/1a/Niccage.png/revision/latest?cb=20121201072505

(also nobody cares about what you did in WoW or your raiding history, and if anything it only detracts from your argument on this blog)

Asny Rak'nys

Cerberus [Chaos]

*grabs a hot cocoa and enjoys the show along with Anty*
Post a Comment

Community Wall

Recent Activity

Filter which items are to be displayed below.
* Notifications for standings updates are shared across all Worlds.
* Notifications for PvP team formations are shared for all languages.
* Notifications for free company formations are shared for all languages.

Sort by
Data Center / Home World
Primary language
Displaying